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	<title>Comments on: Michael Young &#8212; Do not want</title>
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	<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/</link>
	<description>The latest on the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, by the Orange County Register Sports staff</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6908</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6908</guid>
		<description>you know, the really cool thing about about OPS and OPS+ and all them other newfangled number thingies is how they allow me to watch ballgames only in my mind... often at my computer... in my mother's basement! (does that cover all the cliches, or should i throw in some manga reference?)... whatever. is there any chance we can get our mind around the idea that you can appreciate the stat side of baseball and, yes, watch the games? concurrently?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you know, the really cool thing about about OPS and OPS+ and all them other newfangled number thingies is how they allow me to watch ballgames only in my mind&#8230; often at my computer&#8230; in my mother&#8217;s basement! (does that cover all the cliches, or should i throw in some manga reference?)&#8230; whatever. is there any chance we can get our mind around the idea that you can appreciate the stat side of baseball and, yes, watch the games? concurrently?</p>
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		<title>By: sammiller</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6906</link>
		<dc:creator>sammiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6906</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think I'll keep going on a few other details in Mark's comment. 

"He didn't get to hit against Rangers pitching." 
So let's go to check out the quality of pitchers each faced, and find that Aybar faced pitchers who gave up an OPS of .733. Young faced pitchers who gave up an OPS of .727. Negligible. 

"that’s comparing ripe apples and very raw oranges."
Actually, the argument I'm making isn't that Aybar will be as good as Young. It's that in 2008 Aybar was as good as Young. That his value as a no-hit, great-field shortstop was as much as Young's as a OK-hit, OK-field shortstop. Since you didn't argue that point, let's proceed in agreement, and replace the key words in your metaphor: "It's comparing [fruit near the end of its useful life] to [fruit at the beginning of its useful life.]" Now choose. Seriously, a 24-year-old likely entering his peak or a 32-year-old leaving it? Easy.

"Young had a slight off year. It can happen. Mike Lowell had one, got traded, and wound up World Series MVP." Ah, the Mike Lowell argument. Naming an outlier isn't an argument. Or it is, in which case I'll just say Andruw Jones was a regular All-Star coming off two MVP-type seasons who had an off-year in 2007. Then in 2008 he was the worst hitter in baseball. Yay, I win. But not really because an outlier isn't an argument. (I'd bet there are a lot more down seasons followed by down seasons than followed by World Series MVPs though.) 

"And, even though I’ve never swung a bat on the professional level, I wouldn’t be surprised if broken fingers were an obstacle."
Well, sure, but let's read TO THE END of my original sentence: "he’d already begun striking out more and hitting for less power in 2007 and the first half of 2008." That would be before the broken finger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think I&#8217;ll keep going on a few other details in Mark&#8217;s comment. </p>
<p>&#8220;He didn&#8217;t get to hit against Rangers pitching.&#8221;<br />
So let&#8217;s go to check out the quality of pitchers each faced, and find that Aybar faced pitchers who gave up an OPS of .733. Young faced pitchers who gave up an OPS of .727. Negligible. </p>
<p>&#8220;that’s comparing ripe apples and very raw oranges.&#8221;<br />
Actually, the argument I&#8217;m making isn&#8217;t that Aybar will be as good as Young. It&#8217;s that in 2008 Aybar was as good as Young. That his value as a no-hit, great-field shortstop was as much as Young&#8217;s as a OK-hit, OK-field shortstop. Since you didn&#8217;t argue that point, let&#8217;s proceed in agreement, and replace the key words in your metaphor: &#8220;It&#8217;s comparing [fruit near the end of its useful life] to [fruit at the beginning of its useful life.]&#8221; Now choose. Seriously, a 24-year-old likely entering his peak or a 32-year-old leaving it? Easy.</p>
<p>&#8220;Young had a slight off year. It can happen. Mike Lowell had one, got traded, and wound up World Series MVP.&#8221; Ah, the Mike Lowell argument. Naming an outlier isn&#8217;t an argument. Or it is, in which case I&#8217;ll just say Andruw Jones was a regular All-Star coming off two MVP-type seasons who had an off-year in 2007. Then in 2008 he was the worst hitter in baseball. Yay, I win. But not really because an outlier isn&#8217;t an argument. (I&#8217;d bet there are a lot more down seasons followed by down seasons than followed by World Series MVPs though.) </p>
<p>&#8220;And, even though I’ve never swung a bat on the professional level, I wouldn’t be surprised if broken fingers were an obstacle.&#8221;<br />
Well, sure, but let&#8217;s read TO THE END of my original sentence: &#8220;he’d already begun striking out more and hitting for less power in 2007 and the first half of 2008.&#8221; That would be before the broken finger.</p>
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		<title>By: sammiller</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6900</link>
		<dc:creator>sammiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6900</guid>
		<description>"It’s also hilarious to hear someone championing Pat Burrell and denigrating Michael Young simultaneously"

Actually, Mark, here's a bit of fun with logic: It makes exactly as much sense as someone denigrating Pat Burrell and championing Michael Young simultaneously, as you have done. See how that works? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s also hilarious to hear someone championing Pat Burrell and denigrating Michael Young simultaneously&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, Mark, here&#8217;s a bit of fun with logic: It makes exactly as much sense as someone denigrating Pat Burrell and championing Michael Young simultaneously, as you have done. See how that works? :)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Whicker, ocregister.com</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6898</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Whicker, ocregister.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6898</guid>
		<description>I realize Young performs in a hitter's park, but he also doesn't get to hit against Rangers pitching.

It's also hilarious to hear someone championing Pat Burrell and denigrating Michael Young simultaneously. Ah, the omniscience of OPS-plus. Take one dose and never bother with actually watching a baseball game again!

And, as far as the Aybar/Young comparison goes, that's comparing ripe apples and very raw oranges. At least we've seen Young perform at an All-Star level for several years. We haven't had a chance to see that from Aybar yet. Young had a slight off year. It can happen. Mike Lowell had one, got traded, and wound up World Series MVP.

And, even though I've never swung a bat on the professional level, I wouldn't be surprised if broken fingers were an obstacle.

But it's not worth wasting breath on Young coming to the Angels, for several reasons.

Young makes too much money and would improve the Angels. That means it ain't gonna happen.

And, more seriously, the Rangers would want pitching in any trade and the Angels can't afford to give any.

And it's not good when someone gets his nose out of joint because he's asked to help the team by playing third base, which has its own challenges. I mean, it's not like the Rangers are asking Josh Hamilton to catch. Young has already moved from 2B.

But I imagine the Angels pitchers would love to see Young move somewhere. Like Pittsburgh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize Young performs in a hitter&#8217;s park, but he also doesn&#8217;t get to hit against Rangers pitching.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also hilarious to hear someone championing Pat Burrell and denigrating Michael Young simultaneously. Ah, the omniscience of OPS-plus. Take one dose and never bother with actually watching a baseball game again!</p>
<p>And, as far as the Aybar/Young comparison goes, that&#8217;s comparing ripe apples and very raw oranges. At least we&#8217;ve seen Young perform at an All-Star level for several years. We haven&#8217;t had a chance to see that from Aybar yet. Young had a slight off year. It can happen. Mike Lowell had one, got traded, and wound up World Series MVP.</p>
<p>And, even though I&#8217;ve never swung a bat on the professional level, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if broken fingers were an obstacle.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not worth wasting breath on Young coming to the Angels, for several reasons.</p>
<p>Young makes too much money and would improve the Angels. That means it ain&#8217;t gonna happen.</p>
<p>And, more seriously, the Rangers would want pitching in any trade and the Angels can&#8217;t afford to give any.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not good when someone gets his nose out of joint because he&#8217;s asked to help the team by playing third base, which has its own challenges. I mean, it&#8217;s not like the Rangers are asking Josh Hamilton to catch. Young has already moved from 2B.</p>
<p>But I imagine the Angels pitchers would love to see Young move somewhere. Like Pittsburgh.</p>
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		<title>By: sammiller</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6892</link>
		<dc:creator>sammiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6892</guid>
		<description>"So, based upon ballpark effect, which non-Yankees player in the ’20s was better than Babe Ruth? "

Please explain. Not sure what you're getting at, but I'd like to have an answer.

Park effect is a very, very small part of my comparison between Aybar and Young. The big part is that Young is a better hitter by about the same margin as Aybar is a better fielder. I noted (in the comments) that Young reaches base and hits for power at only a moderately higher rate than Aybar; it's even less so because of their ballparks. That's all. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, based upon ballpark effect, which non-Yankees player in the ’20s was better than Babe Ruth? &#8221;</p>
<p>Please explain. Not sure what you&#8217;re getting at, but I&#8217;d like to have an answer.</p>
<p>Park effect is a very, very small part of my comparison between Aybar and Young. The big part is that Young is a better hitter by about the same margin as Aybar is a better fielder. I noted (in the comments) that Young reaches base and hits for power at only a moderately higher rate than Aybar; it&#8217;s even less so because of their ballparks. That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Bloom, staff writer</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6890</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Bloom, staff writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6890</guid>
		<description>So,  based upon ballpark effect, which non-Yankees player in the '20s was better than Babe Ruth? I love numbers, numbers are good. But sometimes you've gotta forget numbers and just trust your lying eyes. If Moneyball and such weighted, number-based theories were so darn accurate, the A's under current management would've won three World Series by now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So,  based upon ballpark effect, which non-Yankees player in the &#8217;20s was better than Babe Ruth? I love numbers, numbers are good. But sometimes you&#8217;ve gotta forget numbers and just trust your lying eyes. If Moneyball and such weighted, number-based theories were so darn accurate, the A&#8217;s under current management would&#8217;ve won three World Series by now.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6888</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6888</guid>
		<description>defensive metric is a dark, unformed art, so, like earl, i'm kinda leery of a calculation that says aybar is as good or better than michael young. but i'm only leery, not dismissive. i want to learn more. and it's not like you're comparing a-rod and angel berroa..... finance notwithstanding, i'd bet more money on aybar improving next year than i would on young regaining his mojo...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>defensive metric is a dark, unformed art, so, like earl, i&#8217;m kinda leery of a calculation that says aybar is as good or better than michael young. but i&#8217;m only leery, not dismissive. i want to learn more. and it&#8217;s not like you&#8217;re comparing a-rod and angel berroa&#8230;.. finance notwithstanding, i&#8217;d bet more money on aybar improving next year than i would on young regaining his mojo&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sammiller</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6886</link>
		<dc:creator>sammiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6886</guid>
		<description>Haha, noted, and thank you Earl. When comparing the two, just remember, a run prevented counts as much as a run scored. 
But your point is taken. For what it's worth, Young's hitting environment is so much better than Aybar's that Young wasn't really *that* much better offensively (.339 OBP, .402 slugging) than Aybar (.314/.384) in 2008.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, noted, and thank you Earl. When comparing the two, just remember, a run prevented counts as much as a run scored.<br />
But your point is taken. For what it&#8217;s worth, Young&#8217;s hitting environment is so much better than Aybar&#8217;s that Young wasn&#8217;t really *that* much better offensively (.339 OBP, .402 slugging) than Aybar (.314/.384) in 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Earl Bloom, staff writer</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6884</link>
		<dc:creator>Earl Bloom, staff writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6884</guid>
		<description>Sam: There are many reasons to want or not want Michael Young on the Angels, salary being a major reason against. I would assume the Rangers will have to pay a portion of his salary since they've painted themselves into a corner. Yes, Young is expensive and a lot older. But any statistical comparions that say Young and Erick Aybar are virtually the same player need to be seriously doubted. There is stretching a point and then there is the absurd. And notice I make this statement without calling anyone names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam: There are many reasons to want or not want Michael Young on the Angels, salary being a major reason against. I would assume the Rangers will have to pay a portion of his salary since they&#8217;ve painted themselves into a corner. Yes, Young is expensive and a lot older. But any statistical comparions that say Young and Erick Aybar are virtually the same player need to be seriously doubted. There is stretching a point and then there is the absurd. And notice I make this statement without calling anyone names.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Perruzzi</title>
		<link>http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/12/michael-young-do-not-want/10280/#comment-6882</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Perruzzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fromthedugout.freedomblogging.com/?p=10280#comment-6882</guid>
		<description>Young would be worth 10 more wins a year.....the 5 against the Rangers that he'll cause (he kills us!), and the 5 he would win with his bat for us. Pull the trigger on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Young would be worth 10 more wins a year&#8230;..the 5 against the Rangers that he&#8217;ll cause (he kills us!), and the 5 he would win with his bat for us. Pull the trigger on this one.</p>
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