Comments on: Moneyball vs. Reaginsball: Not a movie, a real deal

By: MARK SAXON, OCREGISTER.COM

MARK SAXON, OCREGISTER.COM — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:00:03 +0000

Jason,

Thanks for that post. It’s my point exactly. The Angels and A’s are working under entirely different constraints, just as the Angels and Yankees are.

And to Mark Whicker: I was there when Beane used payroll as an excuse after losing that playoff game to Boston. He was trying to distract the media from Miguel Tejada tearfully criticizing Derek Lowe for his WWF-groin-point gesture after recording the save. But it really seemed pathetic at the time to keep trotting out the payroll line.

My thing with Billy is this: I’d like to see what he could do if he had $100 million-plus to spend. It’s probably not as easy as everyone thinks and it takes away your excuse for losing.

By: Jason

Jason — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:35:46 +0000

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2009/03/20062008_payrol.php

In the link above, Lederer looks at the payroll efficiency of all teams from 06-08. The Angels have done extremely well, averageing over 94 wins a year. But Oakland has also done well with over 81 wins a year. Part of Lederer’s conclusion is that “marginal wins are significantly more costly than average wins. In other words, going from 70 to 80 wins isn’t as important — or costly — as going from 80 to 90 wins.”

The Angels ability to spend on average $114 million a year allows them to buy the marginal wins that the A’s can’t afford with their $68 million per year payroll. The fact that Beane was able to average 81 wins a year is a real credit to the front office.

Obviously this year the A’s are in the tank. But I don’t think that 86 games of negative results erase 10 years of positive ones.

By: Mark Whicker, ocregister.com

Mark Whicker, ocregister.com — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:47:04 +0000

We’ll see what he got for Blanton. The Outman kid might be able to pitch and the Cardenas kid might be their next SS.

By: Jake Logan

Jake Logan — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:03:29 +0000

I’m sorry Mark, I assumed you’d be dealing with trades that occurred sometime in the 21st century. Mulder for Haren was a GREAT trade. It was also the last good trade he has made. He gave away a good starting staff (Haren, Harden, & Blanton) and got absolutely nothing in return. He has destroyed that team and they are not gonna be good anytime soon. Their young pitchers just aren’t that good, with the exception of their new closer Andrew Bailey, who by the way, did not come in a trade.

By: Mark Saxon

Mark Saxon — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:29:41 +0000

OK Jake,

How about Mario Encarnacion, Jose Ortiz and a PTBNL for Jermaine Dye?
Or Ben Grieve and A.J. Hinch for Johnny Damon and Cory Lidle?
Or Mark Mulder for Dan Haren, Kiko Calero and Daric Barton?

By: Mark Whicker, ocregister.com

Mark Whicker, ocregister.com — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:33:41 +0000

Where is the umlaut, anyway? I need to find it in case I write about the Bruno movie.

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:20:44 +0000

I used to like listening to the Hud Dog when the Angels were really bad. He cheered things up a bit. Now I get annoyed listening to him on the telecasts. It’s too much. I wouldn’t mind listening to someone a bit more eloquent and professional.

By: Mark Whicker, ocregister.com

Mark Whicker, ocregister.com — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:30:44 +0000

The whole point of “Moneyball” is that Beane was so smart, he could get the A’s to the playoffs without big salaries. Minnesota, Florida and Tampa Bay also have proved that point. Of course, when Boston overcame a 2-0 lead in ‘04 and beat them in the DS, Beane told a SF columnist, hey, whaddaya expect, their payroll is a lot higher. Can’t have it both ways.

But Michael Lewis misrepresented Beane, who is a smart guy and not as didactic as Lewis made him sound.

Moneyball also ignored the 3 reasons why Oakland was good _ Hudson, Mulder, Zito. Beane made a good Mulder deal, a hideous Hudson deal, and Zito became FA. I do think Oakland’s young pitchers will be quite good.

By the way, Earl, you were healthier with the chocolate milkshakes.
And Stephen’s analysis of the dark side of the Internet is right on. He’s too sane to be on this site.

By: Jake Logan

Jake Logan — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:24:18 +0000

Okay Mark just for laughs, give 3 examples of “master heists” by Beane in the last… say 5 years.

By: Mark Saxon

Mark Saxon — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:18:08 +0000

I’m pretty sure the Pirates paid a big chunk of Kendall’s contract, but I don’t recall the details.
The problem with this whole debate is that the A’s, along with a few other clubs, make so many trades, you can always find examples of master heists and embarrassing gaffes.