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Arte Moreno: Lackey or Figgins won’t be back
November 19th, 2009, 12:16 pm · 37 Comments · posted by Sam Miller, The Orange County Register
There’s a whole mess of stuff worth discussing in the LA Times’ interview with Arte Moreno, but most relevant:
“”We’re at $101 million now. We were at $113 million last year. If you look at what (Lackey and Figgins are) asking, you can’t bring both of them back.”
So now we know: about $12 million, not quite the $14 million we had figured, and not the $25 million or so a lot of fans were probably hoping for. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
Based on the reports we’ve been seeing, it looks like Figgins wants around $10 million a year, and Lackey closer to $18 million a year. The Angels also need to replace (or re-sign) their DH, and replace (or re-sign) Darren Oliver.
Let’s revisit our poll:
Who would be more valuable to the Angels in 2010?
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Figgins is the heart of the team. You have to resign him! Let Lackey walk… or try to…
no point in signing figgy if he is goig to be benched in the playoffs… we can make it there without him…wood at 3rd and aybar batting 1st. western divsion is a lock next saeson without figgy…. i will miss him too.
Keep Lackey, he is tough on other teams in the playoffs. He gets fired up and a provenleader.
I’m a Figgins fan like anyone else but that heart of the team left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans during those playoffs. How can you be so hot during the regular season and fizzle as much as he did in the playoffs?
It’s commonly known as ‘Good pitching beats good hitting.’
Than sign the good pitcher instead.
Tough call but it has to go to pitching, keep Lackey.
I would go with the position player. They play everyday, not every 5 days. The bullpen will be better with Shields feeling good and coming back. With Jepsen also in the mix, the Angels can get an effective, less expensive pitcher to get the Angels to their bullpen in the 6th. Don’t get me wrong, I love Lackey, probably his biggest fan, but my position is coming from a business standpoint. Remember, pitchers are always at risk of injury. Paying that much money to an every-5-day player, who could get hurt is a huge risk for Arte.
I’d go with “c, none of the above” on the choices. Or rather, a modified “a.”
Keep Lackey, but no Wood at third base. Get someone else at third.
What’s wrong with Wood? Stellar numbers in the minors. Hasn’t had the extensive playing time in the majors to show his effect. He’s suppose to be relatively good defensively and an offensive powerhouse. So why not Wood?
It’s time for Guerrero to GO!!!
The very guy who was the only really effective hitter in the playoffs? One of the better 2nd half guys for the Angels after he got over being hurt? Prorate his numbers over a 162 game season instead of the 100 games he played and he’s still a 20+HR .300+Avg and 80+RBI batter. I’d keep him especially if its on the cheap with an incentive laden deal.
Maybe so, but maybe the other hitters cooled off in the Playoffs just like they did when Guerrero returned in August (which is when Napoli went cold because of fewer at-bats). I think someone stated the hitters became more “aggressive” when Guerrero returned. Obviously, when Guerrero is around, the other hitters start picking up his hacking ways, and there is only one Guerrero.
we need Lackey and Halladay.. Pitching wins in the playoffs!!!
Angels should be calculating numbers to sign Figgins , Lackey AND Halladay…………..
If you want to keep up the Jones you gonna have to buy a Rolls, honey, not drive a nice BMW…………..
I like them both. In terms of pitching life spans, Lackey may be getting old. When Figgins gets on base, his speed puts other teams under stress for subsequent batters. Good luck to both players. We’ll live with whatever decision is made.
keep guerrero and oliver. izturis and aybar at ss and third.give wood a chance.trade matthews for pitching.
Not as easy as that with Matthews. He makes alot of money and his play doesn’t justify his contract. When teams sell pitching, they want stars and they want minor league prospects, not an aging center fielder with a bloated contract.
Let Figgy go I will miss him he is a great leadoff guy.
Sign Lackey we need him. Try to trade for DOC
Yes sir, which pitcher would you like to trade for GMJ? Roy Halladay or Tim Linceum? Sure, just take him! Get real, fans! You are lucky to even have someone take GMJ off your payroll, let alone getting something in return! Geez…
donald daniels says:
November 19, 2009 at 3:22 pmkeep guerrero and oliver. izturis and aybar at ss and third.give wood a chance.trade matthews for pitching.
Fans? don’t speak for me… even I know that’s an asnine trade. Wont happen.
I say sign Figgins and give him 2B. Sign an insurance 3B like Blum or Loretta (both OC guys) and hand the job to Wood. Structure a package that begins with Kendrick, Napoli and Saunders for Halladay but only if you can sign him to a longer contract. If Wood and Napoli are in the line up at the same time it will become a very strikout prone. If you can get Guerrero cheep I say go for it but it seems Scioscia has always liked DH flexibility. There problems solved!
as much as i love figgy, he hasent produced in the playoffs. western division title is a lock next season. reagins needs to resign lackey, i dont think we can rely on kazmir,santana, saunders or oliver in the alcs next saeson in ny.
I really hate the business of baseball - I would like to think that both figgie and lackey could comprimise, so they can both stay. Apparentently I would not be a good owner.
Moreno referred to “Franchise” guys worthy of 6 year contracts. Lackey has averaged 13 wins over the last 7 years (14 over the last 3). Lackey’s stats are more typical of a #2 or #3 starter. He’s had the benefit of a potent offense so you can’t blame the offense on lack of wins. Zack Greinke (Royals) may have had 22 wins had he pitched for the Angels last year. Greinke had over 100 more K’s than Lackey. Opponents hit over .260 against Lackey last year - far from dominating. If Lackey averaged 18-20 wins the last 3+ years, then give mortgage the Angels future payroll and give him $90 million. But the Angels have been burned 3 times recently with over-paid pitcher’s contracts (Escobar, Speier and Santana). Angels gave Santana $30 mil (4 yrs.) last season + a $13 mil option year. Ouch. Let Lackey walk if he wants more than $12 mil per year X 3 years. If Lackey went to arbitration - not eligible, but if he went - he’d lose if he asked for more than $12 million. Let him walk and trade Kendrick, Wood, Napoli, Mosely, and a minor leaguer to Toronto for a legit #1 starting pitcher. Over-paying Lackey now will prevent the Angels being able to sign free-agent studs over the next 2-6 years … not a smart move.
Kathy I agree with you. Its tough to remain loyal when either the team or players seem to treat each other with such indifference. As a fan you put a lot of time, effort and good intentions into rooting for your team but I’m always reminded what a one way street it is.
If Lackey can make a lot more somewhere else far be it from me to suggest he shouldn’t do what he thinks is best. But for someone who has had such a history (game 7 etc.) and played for one organization and and a good organization at that Lackey doesn’t even seem like he wants to be here. I guess if he doesn’t care about being here than why should we care if he is here or not.
Let them both walk. Keep Oliver, and let the other free-agents leave.
I think Moreno would let the payroll go a little higher to sign someone like Jason Bay, but that’s not necessary. Also, trading for Granderson might be a possibility.
But, with Izturis (.169 Runs per TPA) and Kendrick (.153 Runs per TPA) above or near Figgins (.158 Runs per TPA), the Angels could replace Figgins by using the platoon trio of Kendrick, Izturis, and Aybar to fill out the first two slots of the lineup.
I think the Angels would then need to add a left-handed hitter for the #7 slot in the lineup. Sign Thome as a DH vs. righties (if possible). Or, trade for Swisher to play platoon with Abreu in RF or Atkins to play 3B or DH while backing up 1B & 3B. No need for a $15 million player. Just a left-handed hitter for the #7 slot in the lineup.
1 - Kendrick / Izturis (2B)
2 - Aybar / Izturis (SS)
3 - Abreu (DH/RF)
4 - Hunter (CF)
5 - Morales (1B)
6 - Rivera (LF)
7 - Thome (DH) or Swisher (RF) or Atkins (3B/1B/DH)
8 - Napoli (C/DH) / Mathis (C)
9 - Wood (3B)
Napoli and Wood production should improve with more at-bats, and they will eventually move up in the lineup, so even a Willits in RF to bat 9th would be okay.
As for starting pitchers: Harden is my first choice. Bedard & Sheets would be second or third choices.
Relief pitcher: DARREN OLIVER!
see ya Figgy. by the way, this quote by Arte is what I’ve been saying all along. not rocket sci just common sense!
Charles that line up looks like a giant step down from last year and looks mediocre at best. I agree that it looks affordable and also agree a platoon at 2B could be effective with Kendrick/Izturis but I have no reason to think Atkins will be effective after his last 2 years. Swisher will be too expensive for what he really is and Thome is too 1 dimensional for the Angels. Expecting Morales to replicate or improve may be a stretch and Harden, Bedard and Sheets all have poor track records when it comes to staying healthy. It is in question that Sheets will ever pitch again. I sure hope Arte invests his money with higher percentage answers.
keep figgins!!! let lackey walk, just not over to Boston or the Yankees!
Let Figgins go! I like figgy but he’s not worth 10 million a year and he’s blocking Brandon Wood who deserves a shot like Kendry Morales got. Brandon Wood is a 30 Hr 100 RBI guy. Aybar is “punch & judy” with speed and so is Figgins. You can’t afford two guys like that in your lineup. If you’ve noticed the teams that have won the World series as of late have some “BIG BATS”. Get another fungo (Figgy) out of the Angeles bat rack and put in some LUMBER (Wood).
arte is factoring in arbitration
Well this offseason the angels have many decisions to make and they should let chone and john both leave and heres why. The angels need an ace and john isnt an ace. They need to trade for holliday in a package deal. Saunders, itruis, naps and some minor league pitchers. Then sign bay. Let vlad go and pick up dye or damon. Then sign either Sheets, Duchscherer, when 10-8 with 2.52.era last year or sign bedard then sign a backup inf like Kahili Greene
The rotation
1 Holliday
2 Weaver
3 Kasmir
4 Santana
5 Sheets/Bedard/Duchcherer
Line up
1 Aybar
2 Abreu
3 Hunter
4 Morales
5 Dye
6 Rivera
7 Kendrick
8 Mathis
9 Wood
Tyler, I agree with letting Figgy and Lackey walk….too old and expensive. I don’t know about trading our future for Doc (unless he agrees to an extension) no rental players aka Texeira. Sheets/ Bedard/ Ducherer are prone to injury and that’s a waste unless they sign for one year heavy incentive contract….Palmer is not bad and since he’s lucky we might as well pitch him cuz he wins even with a 5 era. I think we must sign Vlad for a 1-2 year heavy incentive contract. He can still hit .300 with 20 homers and 90+ rbi. Save our $$$ for the REAL franchise players next year ( Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Josh Becket, Deric Lee, Carl Crawford)
The rotation: Weaver, Saunders, Santana, Kazmir, Palmer/ Deucher/ Halladay (wish)
Line up: Aybar, Abreu, Vlad, Morales, Hunter, Rivera, Kendrick, Wood, izturis
In a perfect world we could swallow half of GMJ salary and get some young pitching prospects back. We would trade Wood and Napoli for Granderson (only makes 5 mil 2010 and 8.5mil 2011) Trade Rivera/ Moseley/ Saunders/ Willits/ and 1 prospect for Roy Halladay (WITH extension) Sign Figgins 3 years 25 mil. Sign Vlad 1 year 5 mil (heavy incentive) we want him to retire with us as a hall of famer. These moves result in our starting pitching improving, so does our bats and the prospects from GMJ could develop as well as the draft picks from losing Lackey and Figgins.
The rotation: Halladay, Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, Palmer/ Deucher?
Line Up: Figgins, Granderson, Abreu, Morales, Vlad, Hunter, Kendrick, Mathis, Aybar.
End result….C-H-A-M-P-I-O-N-S-H-I-P
this is a no brainer. position players are a plenty. quality starter are not. the angels need to sign Lackey first. if Figgins wants to play here then he can adjust his salary. otherwise…..figgy, thanks for the memories.
Lackey is no Sandy Koufax.
But Figgins lack of hitting in the playoffs probably made the different between winning and losing against the NY Yankees anad maybe winning the World Series in 2009.
The playoffs shows after all these years Figgins either is not a playoff championship hitter or is still a developing player. If so, sign Lackey and have Brandon Woods be the developing player.