- NEWS
- Murder defendant: 'Dating Game' proves point 58 minutes ago
- Report: Gay O.C. soldier returns to duty 39 minutes ago
- Thunderstorm, hail in north O.C. 1 minute ago
- Planting starts at $1.4 million Great Park farm 1 hour & 10 minutes ago
- SPORTS
- Baseball's look-alikes 15 minutes ago
- SI exposes Winter Olympians 3 hours & 21 minutes ago
- Laker Rim Shots 2-8-10
- Sneak peek: SI swimsuit edition 3 hours & 10 minutes ago
- BUSINESS
- Office romance flirts with disaster 3 hours & 10 minutes ago
- Here's why Toyota is recalling the Prius 3 hours & 30 minutes ago
- Temp work pointing to a recovery?
- $16.5M apartments sale sets record
- ENTERTAINMENT
- LIFE
- Cocktail ideas for Valentine's Day
- Kaiser is top HMO in state ranking 1 hour & 16 minutes ago
- Study: Junk food ads make kids fat, not TV 1 hour & 27 minutes ago
- Heidi Montag surgeries hurt women, docs say
- TRAVEL
- OPINION
What price Halladay? Methinks the pitcher doth cost too much
November 24th, 2009, 9:44 am · 27 Comments · posted by Earl Bloom, staff writer
There is an expression I have never liked, “beating a dead horse,” probably because beating a live one seemed repulsive to me, too.
So now the Angels are after Roy Halladay again, and if a deal with Toronto doesn’t include shortstop Erick Aybar, it’s OK now?
Remember this: Getting Halladay means closing the door on John Lackey (even if it only seems open a crack, anyway). Trading Jered Weaver, Ervin Santana or Joe Saunders to Toronto in a Halladay package creates another hole in the Angels starting rotation.
Let’s review. The rotation would be Halladay in Lackey’s place, whoever is left of the trio above in the next two spots, Scott Kazmir and someone else.
Since I have already proposed making Weaver the Angels No. 1, and simply adding an arm from the organization’s prospects, this is not much different — just much more expensive.
For this deal to make any sense (it’s too much for a one-year rental), the Angels also have to pay Halladay a long-term contract extension that will likely be the most expensive (by far) in franchise history. It’s easy to pay a 32-year-old pitcher that kind of money for four or five years, as long as it’s someone else’s money.
Angels fans, that will be your money, with Arte Moreno the middleman and the resultant raised ticket prices your contribution.
So be careful what you wish for, since this is all within the realm of possibility.
We don’t know yet what the Aybar substitute is in the deal, but I am pretty sure it’s not Gary Matthews. And no, as someone suggested last week, the Angels can’t trade him for a top closer. Seriously, I read that on this blog.
Yes, the Yankees appeared to have bought a World Series this past season. But remember, they had been paying for one since 2001. That’s a .111 batting average.
And to Irvine5, who wrote that he would rather have Halladay than five Aybars, I will say this: I guarantee you Halladay, or any sane pitcher, would love to pitch with five Aybars behind him.
Reader Comments
Comments are encouraged, but you must follow our User Agreement.- Keep it civil and stay on topic.
- No profanity, vulgarity, racial slurs or personal attacks.
- People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked.
27 Comments
Leave a Reply
-
ADVERTISEMENT
-
Latest Angels headlines- AngelsWin.com Blog Feed
- A to Z Angels: George Brunet February 9, 2010
- A to Z Angels: Mike Butcher February 8, 2010
- A to Z Angels: Rick Burleson February 5, 2010
- FoxSports.com calls upon AngelsWin.com February 4, 2010
-
-
-
ADVERTISEMENT
I would go with Weaver as the No. 1 pitcher, still holding out hope that Lackey would stick around.
This might be a season where Weaver takes the top spot in the rotation, Brandon Wood takes over at 3b, and we start looking for a future run. Maybe Halladay a year from now. Even then, probably too expensive.
Have to disagree with you…. imho, Lackey is is a very good #2….not an ace. If the Angels have a chance to grab Halladay, who is a top-of-the-rotation starter in any rotation, they should do it.
An alternative to trading for Halladay likely won’t come around until next off-season… if and when Cliff Lee and Halladay hit the free agent market.
The Angels also have to think in terms of what their competition is doing… and if they don’t acquire Halladay, there exists a strong possibility (even likelihood) that the Red Sox or Yankees will…. creating an even further divide between these teams competitively.
I’ll take the younger Josh Johnson in a trade instead.
Now you’re talking.
A trade like this would have its pros and cons. The pro obviously is that we get one of the best pitchers in the league. I’m just afraid of giving up half of our team for someone who only plays once every 5 games, doesn’t seem worth it to me. If you want to trade Saunders, Izturis, Willits, or even Rivera, go ahead. Dont trade Aybar and Dont trade Wood, i want to see Wood finally play everyday, and Aybar is too valueable. If the Jays do make a trade with us it might make them a wild card team. Dont give up Weaver or Santana for Halladay, I like our rotation as: Halladay, Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, and Matt Palmer or Escobar. Then our infield could be morales, kendrick, aybar, and wood. Put rivera in the deal for halladay so our OF could be abreu, hunter, and matthews (let matthews play everyday so we at least get our money’s worth for him). Instead of getting a top starter though, i think our biggest need is a closer, fuentes is awful, either make arredondo the closer or go get Bell in a trade. It would be less money to just sign lackey and get him back then it would be to trade for halladay, sign him long term, and give up half our team in the process. I dont really think we need Halladay after all, we have 4 potential all stars for starting pitchers now, and palmer would make a solid 5th starter
Every team needs a strong and clear #1 starter in the playoffs. Lackey has TRIED to be that guy and done a decent job but he’s #2, not #1. That’s why he wants the same money as Burnett got to be a #2. Halladay is a guy that would scare teams when pitching in the playoffs. John Lackey doesn’t scare anyone. We have no idea what the Angels will give up in this deal. Also, you can guarantee that Weaver is gone in three years anyway. He’s a Boras guy and most certainly will go to free agency where the Angels will say good bye. I think it makes good sense to get a Halladay at the top. My bet is they could give up someone other than Weaver anyway. The #5 starter ends up being Moseley. Get the ace because Lackey isn’t it. As far as ticket prices going up, they go up every year anyway, just like everything else in life. By the way, we’re still in the bottom third of ticket prices in the league right? This is coming from a season ticketholder who wants to field the best team at a reasonable price to the fans, which I still think we have.
I stopped second-guessing the Angels a few years ago. These guys are excellent at putting together a winning team and understanding the dynamics of the farm system and free agent/trade market.
“John Lackey doesn’t scare anyone.”
The Yankees sure didn’t want to face him in a potential ALCS Game 7, and they said just as much.
What they say and what they really think are 2 different things. I prefer our chances usually when Lackey isn’t pitching. He forces pitches at times and occasionally I can’t bring myself to trust his stuff, especially against another teams ace.
Except there’s no reason to publicly state “we don’t want to face John Lackey in a Game 7″ if they don’t mean it.
“He forces pitches at times and occasionally I can’t bring myself to trust his stuff, especially against another teams ace.”
Off the top of my head, he had great stuff when he beat Johan Santana and the Mets in June ‘08, Sabathia before the ASB in 09, and of course Lester in the 2009 ALDS.
I’m not saying Lackey is a #1, but he’s a helluva strong #2, and has proven to be quite formidable in the postseason. Not all aces can say that.
To put over the other team. To show respect and not try to downplay the effectiveness of another team. To market. Even against the worst teams in the league “They have good pitchers and they always come ready to play. It’s unfortunate that they haven’t been able to string it together, but you never know then their young guys can break out and beat ya. They’re always a threat to win”. Yeah… lemme know when a Yankees player openly says on the mic that when facing KC that they suck total ass will beat them handily. He was most formidable in Game 7 World Series 2002. #2 guy for sure, overrated though yes.
It’s one thing to respect other pitchers and call them good when they’re not.
It’s another to go out of your way to say, “that’s a guy we don’t want to see again.”
The problem with a trade is that it doesn’t get Doc signed. A one year rental will not do. If he’s willing to sign an extension at a price that Arte is willing to pay, then I’d pull the trigger on a deal that sends Santana and Rivera or Santana and Izturis and a minor league player who appeals to them but makes sense to us (wilson? budde? evans? sanchez?). I’d be VERY comfortable with Doc, Weaver, Saunders, Kazmir and Palmer or Bell. Wood will slip into 3b, Kendrick is fine at 2nd and they still have mike brown available in AAA to cover them at 1st and 3rd and Wood who can slide over to SS if something happens to Aybar (depending if it’s rivera or izturis who goes). But really, it only works if Doc signs and extension that Arte likes. No one year rental that costs a couple valuable players.
The only way this trade happens is if the Angels get a window to negotiate and they work out a long term deal with Halladay. They aren’t going to give up a boat to get a 1 year rental. Do some research.
What none of u are mentioning is that Ervin Santana is under contract, a 32+ mill. contract that Toronto may not be happy taking
They’d be happy to take that over the money they’d pay Halladay.
Good point John. So it would have to be Saunders. Weaver is untouchable to me. I am surprised Napoli doesn’t come up more in trade rumors, he must be a hot item. I’d offer Napoli and Rivera, plus one select farm hand, for Doc Question is, would you put Saunders in this trade? I don’t know.
Napoli has no defense. He’s a good backup catcher full time DH.
Opportunities to steal an Ace from the Yanks/ Sox don’t come around often. The goal for the Angels is winning a championship and Doc Halladay will help us beat Boston and New York. Sorry Lackey..you’re a great pitcher but not in the same league as the Doc who in my opinion is the one of the top 3 pitchers in the game. Imagine his numbers when he pitches in the AL WEST instead of the East (boston/NY). The key is EXTENDING his contract for 4 years. Next we try to give up Napoli, Wood , Willits, Bell and another prospect without giving up a starting pitcher..if we have to then Saunders. Remember GREAT pitching beats great hitting and with Halladay, Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, Moseley/Palmer we clearly have the best in the business……. and with the postseason you use 4 pitchers max anyway so we would be fine!
Next thing…trade Rivera for Granderson straight up because we’re not paying Figgy 10 million a year….instead Grandy is owed only 5 million 2010, and 8 mil for 2011. We get speed, defense and pop for half of Figgy’s salary…sorry but Rivera is good but Grandy is great and only 27 and getting better. Additionally we can sign Vlad to a 5 mil 1 year contract heavy incentive based…remember even though he’s not the same..he still will hit .300 20-30 hr and 80-100+ rbi’s and wants to stay here! He can be our greatest angel ever to retire into the hall of fame! There it is Halo fans…our recipe to success this offseason! Halladay, Granderson, and our greatest Angel Vlad!
Couldn’t agree more with Masterhalofan! Atleast you make it sound good : ) But if this was something that could truly happen, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be the best path for the angels to follow!!!
Speed, D and Pop but no BA and no OBP. Figgy was around the league leaders in walks and hit over 300. Granderson didn’t. He’s more of a 6 hole guy then a 1 hole guy. If anything, Aybar should be leading off.
I like the idea of having Doc as your ace going into the playoffs. Look back at last year against the Yankees…would it have changed the dynamics any if we ran Doc out there against CC a couple of times? I think it could have. The bottom line is that Doc gives you a better chance to win in the playoffs and that is what we need. BUT, not for a one year rental!
I also like the idea of swapping Granderson with Figgy and letting Wood play third. I do think however you will have to give more than Rivera to make it happen!
I get an eery feeling that Wood & Napoli will go to the Tigers for Granderson, and then they’ll hit 60 homers annually for the Tigers for the next ten years. Hope it doesn’t cost that much.
I’d be happy with trading for or signing after the non-tenders, Garrett Atkins as the thirdbasemans to start, with Wood gradually moving into the spot. Atkins could bat 7th, and Wood 9th.
Halladay? Sorry, not if it costs Weaver or Saunders. Weaver, Saunders, Kazmir, and Santana? That’s really nice to have.
Don’t make any major trades or changes. Sign Figgins, Vladdy at a reduced rate, sign Oliver. If you can trade for Halladay, don’t give up too much. Trade any of the following for Halladay: Wood, Gary Mathews Jr., Willits, Napoli, Palmer, Bell, or O’Sullivan. Keep all our great young pitchers, Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, etc. We will win the World Series next year!! Quit worrying about making a big trade. WE have enough on the team now to go all the way!!
Failure to have a dominant top of the rotation starter has hurt the ANgels in the playoffs every season. Halladay, Weaver and Santana are a much more formidable group than Lackey, Weaver and Santana or Weaver, Santana and Saunders.
Also, Halladay eats innings saving the bullpen which would really help the rest of the staff.
Getting a legit number one starter has to be the Angels number one priority. I cringe thinking about him in a Red Sox uniform.
Looking at a potential trade for Halladay, you consider what the Jays need to field a competitive team. Napoli would provide offense and could team with Raul chavez in the catchers duties. O’Sullivan and Palmer are young and would be in the rotation immediately, joined by Romero, Cecil, Richmond, or any of the other pitchers the Jays used in 2009, due to injuries. They don’t need Wood or Kendrick, because they have an all star in Hill and they picked up Encarnacion for third. They also have Ruiz at DH. Willits would be the fourth outfielder, backing up Snyder, Lind, and Wells. Santana and Saunders aren’t that much better than the pitchers the Jays have now and Weaver has Boras as his agent. That spells disaster. As a Jays fan, I would give a thumbs up for Napoli, Palmer, O’Sullivan, Willits, and if they include Fuentes, that is an added bonus and even nail biting ninth innings fills the need for a closer.
Matt Palmer will be 31 years old before next season starts, a year younger than Halladay. Try selling that to the Toronto fans, the SP they get in return for the best pitcher in franchise history.
The Toronto fan above you seems OK with it. Done deal, dude.